check spigelia, and sulphur too, spig is the chronic of arnika..bell may in some cases help..or its chroinnc sanguinaria..

Hej GM !

Thank you again.

What about the potencies?

I am inclined to take whiplash as a "layer" as it transforms the lives of the sufferers to be really something else "a hell of pain".
My clients report that their life is completely changed since some weeks after the accident where the pain and the problems startet.
So if I see it as a layer, i can treat it from the symptoms that regularly came whith whiplash, which is:
ailments of injury (to back, spain ...)
injury, soft parts
pain in neck, > by rest, < by activity,
sad, dispair about future,
concentration difficult,
memory confused

which gives me , arn., rhus.tox, nat.sulph. hypericon, ruta, and the like,
and I am happy for new ideas for other remedies, which i have to study now.
I find people get rigid=stiff in their attitudes, as a consequense of pain.

mostly the trouble is 2 years going on, så
would you recommend low potencies ?


regards

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GM:
check spigelia, and sulphur too, spig is the chronic of arnika..bell may in some cases help..or its chroinnc sanguinaria..<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Too little info, calc c could also be a choic.and kali sulp, kalium..etcmore is needed, but if using paracetamol products sulp is the first, then nux..remove coffe imidiately, then go for the constitiutonal ok? and use sulp in 30, nux in 200, const in M .

I had success once with ARNika?
What potency did you used.
My personal experience, I have seen Rhus-tox 200c, works great on old injury, also Led is good remedy. I had a similar case of 66 year old man, had shoulder pain from a Four year shoulder injury, Arnica 200c, did the trick,
Does heat makes it better or cold, weather?
When you say pain, what kind of pain is it?
When is the pain worse, bending, stretching, etc.
Back-Pain ;Injury after: Calc, Con, Hyper, Kali-c, Nat-s, Rhus-t,Thuj
Back-Pain;Lumbar region;Injury,after-Kali-C
Back-Pain;Lancinating;Lumbar region;Injury,after:--Nat-S
Back-Pain;Sore,bruised,beaten;Coccyx;Injury,from:--Carb-an, Hyper, Mez, Sil


[This message has been edited by GARY (edited 14 June 2000).]

Dear Gary, GM, and Anna !

I have been doing some reflection (out of my limited experience) on the remedies proposed by you and I would like to share the following thoughts:

LACH = disregarded: I liked the idea of LACH very much, when i read GMs post. Its so simple, almost ellegant solution. The symbol of the vulnerability of the snakes neck combined with the tenderness of the whiplash-sufferers neck.
BUT: 1. argument against LACH is its modality of &lt; after sleep. All the whiplash sufferers I know are markedly better after rest and worse after activity.
2. argument against LACH: it affects the throat more then the neck.

CLEMATIS = disregarded: from what I can read it has more to do with discharges and glands.

CAST EQUI = disregarded, sounds to me more like skin induration

SANGuinaria = could be, sometimes. I can see, why GM says it is the chronic of BELL, but it sounds all to hot to me. I dont see flushes of heat or sweat, but see the idea of congestion becaus of blockage in the neck.

CICUTA = could be, as it is useful after injuries of the brain, which can be, as the brain bumps through the cerebral waters to the scalp-bone at the moment of the accident,
BUT: most of the whiplash patients did not loose consciousness or feel dizzy or feel like vomiting, which are the symptoms of a concussion.
Furthermore: I do not see spasms in these people.

SIL = could be, if there is damage to the bones or periosteum, but that should be visible in the roentgen. Anyways, induration of the softer parts could be the picture.
So this is a remedy to consider.

RUTA = "acts directly on the flexor tendons, periosteum and cartilage" (citat of David Littles akut chapter). That sounds good.
BUT: "&lt; lying down, rest," does not fit

CALC FLUORica = this one sounds very good too. "Indurations after injuries, swelling and indurations about tendons and joints" is what convinces me most. The only thing, that makes me sceptic is the similarity to rhus.tox with &gt;by motion and these people are &lt; of motion.
But this is a remedy to considder.

SPIGelia = sounds very promising ! The modalities &lt; touch, motion, ; neck: stiff, pain into temple or/and shoulder. I am a bit unsecure about the causality of heart/eye symptoms, but remeber GM information "SPIG is the chronic of ARN".
So this is a remedy I will consider seriously.

COCCulus = very promising ! the modalities &lt; motion, of boat, cars, loss of sleep, touch, noise, stooping, anxiety, cold ... are all very much fitting. "affections of cerebro-spinal axis" and "paralytic relaxation" is very nice too.
BUT: there is a nervousness about this remedy, that I dont see in the whiplash-patients. there is no "alternating symptoms" and I do not find "tremors" either
Anyways: the fitting part is very convincing. So this is a remedy to consider too.

My knowledge of the remedies is still very little, so I would be grateful about commentaries, if there are any.

BRYONIA (2*). Useful after Arn. when the joint is hot, red, swollen, with stitches and
tearing pains which a &lt; the slightest motion. Effective after the joint has been reduced but the acute inflammation remains and the joint is very painful to move. &lt; heat, motion, morning, exertion, touch. &gt; cold, lying on the painful side to support it, pressure, rest. The patient is irritable and wants to be left alone.
(citat of David Littles akut chapter)

Could bryonia be a choice, though the accident is usually 1-2 years ago, when I meet the patients.? or nat-c for all injuries to spine ?

What about the potencies, should there be low and the dosage repeated, even though the problem is years old ?

well, looking forward to commentaries

regards

Hej Gary !

I used Arnika 200.
(Got a young lad with whiplash syndrom free of pain and an older man with pains after falling 25 meters on his back, brocken cerveral times, 7 year pain and then cured by a single dose arn 200 within 6 weeks.
that was a big joy !)

I find the pain of whiplash-sufferers markedly WITHOUT influence of hot and cold and different weather, compared to other pain-sufferers.
I never got any good modalities, besides &gt; by rest, &lt; through movement.
the neck is stiff - some people more then others, grading from totaly inmobile to just stiff.
whiplash patients normaly use their shoulders when they look to one side, they do not turn the head, do not move the neck.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GARY:
I had success once with ARNika?
What potency did you used.
My personal experience, I have seen Rhus-tox 200c, works great on old injury, also Led is good remedy. I had a similar case of 66 year old man, had shoulder pain from a Four year shoulder injury, Arnica 200c, did the trick,
Does heat makes it better or cold, weather?
When you say pain, what kind of pain is it?
When is the pain worse, bending, stretching, etc.
Back-Pain ;Injury after: Calc, Con, Hyper, Kali-c, Nat-s, Rhus-t,Thuj
Back-Pain;Lumbar region;Injury,after-Kali-C
Back-Pain;Lancinating;Lumbar region;Injury,after:--Nat-S
Back-Pain;Sore,bruised,beaten;Coccyx;Injury,from:--Carb-an, Hyper, Mez, Sil


[This message has been edited by GARY (edited 14 June 2000).]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

.I had whiplash years ago, had neck pain that wouldn't go away after 9 months of chiro and osteopath work. I was not ever worse from sleep and I happened to take lach 200 for vertigo and the neck pain disappeared and never came back.

This is allopahtic argumentation about homeopathic remedies!

THERE ARE NO GENERAL SINGLE REMEDIE, THEY ARE INDIVIDUAL FOR EACH CASE! TAILORFITTED!

SO STUFF THIS ALLOPATHIC ARGUMENTATION!

AND THIS IS NOTHING OF THE INFO REQUESTED, THIS IS, EXCUSE THE EXPRESSION , PURE BULL...

ADOPTATION INTO THE ALLOPATHIC ARENA OF HOMEOPATHIC REMEDIES IS AND HAS BEEN A MAJOR FAILURE AND A INSULT TO THE SCIENCE OF HOMEOPATHY AND ITS TRUE PRACTITIONERS!

hej carolorr !

Thanks for your message.

I am happy for hearing other experience with one of the remedies proposed for whiplash.
Great you came over the pain !

regards


<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by carolorr:
.I had whiplash years ago, had neck pain that wouldn't go away after 9 months of chiro and osteopath work. I was not ever worse from sleep and I happened to take lach 200 for vertigo and the neck pain disappeared and never came back.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hej GM !

wow !
this is really a "big letter" argument .. ouh?

well .. take it easy.
my post was not an answer to your last post. I have restrictet access to e-mail, so I write my answers off-line and in this case there are a generel reflection on the last posts, (as i wrote).

I know the classical homoepathy argumentation very well - and I stand in for it. So ... stop the bull-shitting.

The situation in this cases is difficult in the following way.
I work with pain-sufferers as a psychologist and meet different patients-groups, that are very simmilar in their symptomatology.
for eksempel whiplash.
unfortunately I do not have the time and possibility to take a real anamnese, as I meet these people mostly in groups.
some of them would like to use homøopatic remedies, so I have to use the information I got.

Differentiating between constitutional treatment and acut treatment is not easy either, because some of these people have had pain, in 2 years.
All of them report, there life has changed drastically since the accident, so I made my mind up - until now - to see the problem as a layer on top of whatever and try to treat it as such.

What would you do in that situation ?

Don't get into the fight for or against constitutional treatment, because we are buddies on that.
With the clients I treat in my privat praksis I do of course follow the routine: taking a long and detailed personal historie, with all the hints I can get for are and characteristic mind,general,fysical rubrics.

But here I ask for help because I have a problem.
Maybe this discussion would be interesting to revolve around the general problem.
What do we do, when we can't get all the information?
what do we do, if there has to be a quick prescription ?
where is the border between constitutional and acute treatment.
If there is a clear layer of acut symptoms, how long time can this symptom be treated like an acut ?

so, thats all for today.
see you on the road

regards