The following was addressed to a Nuclear Physicist, and his reply is included. The purpose of this communication was to eliminate any possibility of "Nuclear effects" from the investigation into the Scientific mechanism of Homeopathy.

My question relates to the forces/energies needed to cause nuclear effects/decay/particle emission. Whether a simple process like strong and vigorous grinding (over a long period of time) at room temperature, could in any circumstances ever produce nuclear effects.

I hope you will seriously consider even the remotest possibility of nuclear effects happening in the following procedure. This procedure is Chemistry but the "effect" is believed to be within the bounds of Physics (resembling cascade phenomena?).

There is a three-hour procedure of grinding, using a very small amount of material. It was originally performed by hand using a mortar and pestle, and required considerable effort. One grain (0.06 gram) of a substance is mixed with 2 grams of pure LACTOSE powder (inert powder used in grinding, though it is not inert in this case) in a mortar. Note that 2g is a very small amount of material to be grinding in a mortar.

The grinding is continued strongly for 20 minutes. At this point, a second 2g of lactose is added and the grinding continued for another 20 minutes. This is repeated again, producing "First Hour Powder".

Just 0.06g of this powder is then mixed with 2g of new lactose, and the very same procedure is repeated for a second, and then a third hour.

Chemically, there is little unusual to be seen in
these powders. But, it is known that the powders are light-sensitive and must be kept in a tightly closed container away from heat or they deteriorate, which normally indicates instability due to weak bonding in Chemistry.

But, it is possible that information of some kind
about the 0.06g of starting substance, is carried by a physical property of the lactose powder. It is also necessary to decontaminate the Mortar and Pestle after use, a lengthy process requiring extremely high temperatures, before these tools can be used again. From a
Chemist's point of view, the need for such a lengthy process, although necessary, is unclear.

As these substances are crystalline powders (lactose is a simple sugar) there has been talk of a possible Piezoelectric or Triboluminescent effect contributing to the change, which I am following up. These effects cause electrical discharges and light emission during mechanical stresses. The question is, could these
effects, encountered by this process under high
pressures during the 3-hours of grinding, possibly have a nuclear effect of some kind?

The properties of the "effect" are :

1. The longer the powder is grounded down and
attenuated with lactose (the more dispersed the
original substance becomes in the lactose) the greater is the magnitude of the "effect" which develops in the steps after the 3-Hr trituration.

2. A minute amount of the final "three-hour powder" is dissolved in a large amount of water and then a single drop diluted with alcohol in a test tube. The test tube is shaken vigorously (succussed), and this causes the "effect"
to increase in magnitude. Further steps of dilution in alcohol and vigorous shaking, cause even further increase in magnitude even though, Chemically, nothing can be detected.

Because of this rule about "the smaller the amount of starting material in the solution (the more dispersed is the original substance in the lactose), the greater is the magnitude of
the effect which develops", I suspect some kind of cascade process to be responsible here. As such processes do not occur in a situation like this in Chemistry, would you please consider the possibility that the process might resemble Nuclear phenomena you are familiar with. Examples : Internuclear Cascade, Electromagnetic Cascade? (What do you think of Cold fusion?)

This is a very unusual question, I know, but hope that you will try to address it from the perspective of a Nuclear Physicist. Thank You.

THE NUCLEAR PHYSICIST'S REPLY

This is the Physicist's reply to the above :

I do not believe any such process could be nuclear as the localised energy would have to be many orders of magnitude greater than could be
achieved like this. A simple test would be to put a Geiger counter on the process, as it is unlikely a nuclear reaction could take place
without radiation, but I am not an experimental physicist. In so far as I can ascertain cold fusion is a myth, and probably a confidence trick. I would suspect that electrons are being put into excited states and that it is a classical luminescence effect.

After communication with the Nuclear Physicist, it seems unlikely that any kind of Nuclear Effect could be occurring during the grinding of powders at room temperature. Since the investigation is still at an early stage, and its mechanism enigmatic, a nuclear effect cannot be discounted completely, but will be set aside for the time being.

This allows us to move on to more likely mechanisms for Homeopathy at the chemical level (though this may include physical properties too). The search begins with the Grinding or Trituration process.

There appear to be two alternatives; that the process of trituration is either PASSIVE, where the medicine molecules become very evenly dispersed in the lactose powder, and separate over the three hour process of grinding or,

ACTIVE, where the lactose is participating in some way by interacting with the medicine molecules.

Close attention will be paid to Hahnemann's preparation procedure (Organon 6th Edition). After each hour of grinding, the powders must be kept in tightly-closed glass vials, and out of the light. This suggests instability, usually weak bonding. It is difficult to know whether this supports more an Active or a Passive role of the Lactose.

The end result of the 3-hour Trituration is a 1:1000000 attenuation in powder, and from this just 0.06g is dissolved in 500 drops of an ethanol/distilled water mixture, representing a further 1:50000 dilution. Then, one drop of this solution becomes the starting point for the many dilution/succussion steps in 95% ethanol. At the end of EACH OF THESE STEPS the solution is dripped onto tiny sugar globules, and just one of these globules dissolved in a drop of water is used in the next potentisation step, placed in an empty glass vial and 100 drops of 95% ethanol added. This dilution/succussion process is repeated up to 30 times. The Homeopathic signal is moving between alcohol and sucrose at each step.

Note that Hahnemann specified sucrose not lactose in the potentisation procedure. This meant he had to go to the trouble of having these globules specially made, by a confectioner. This may indicate the need for a property in sucrose, which lactose does not have. On the other hand, it is possible that the only reason sucrose is used because Hahnemann wanted globules of a specific size, and the confectioner can prepare these.

In other words, the sucrose may play a PASSIVE role (like the lactose), i.e., after each potentisation step, the ethanol just settles in, or on, the sucrose - no kind of "effect" transfer between the ethanol and sucrose globules. Sucrose, being an asymmetrical molecule, has some interesting properties, but it seems unlikely that these properties could express themselves if these molecules are not significantly dissolving in the ethanol. Hahnemann may have used Sucrose globules as an intermediary at the end of each step only because, by starting with just one of these globules in the next potentisation step, the ratio of "effect" in sucrose to 100 drops of ethanol was much higher than 1:100.

The "effect" (energy state) carrying the Homeopathic signal therefore settles on sugar tablets and remain there indefinitely (away from heat and light) only to be re-activated when dissolved in water or saliva on the tongue.

If we assume the roles of lactose and sucrose in the preparation to be just PASSIVE, then we should focus on the Ethanol solution, and how the "effect" increases during dilution/succussion.

(But, later, not forgetting the chemical and physical properties of the substances involved in the preparation process : 1. Lactose, 2. Ethanol solution, 3. Sucrose globules, 4. Water)

Regarding the "effect" of Homeopathy, from a logical perspective, it seems that living tissue reserves certain "energy ranges" for higher levels of communication and control (e.g., High level Homeostasis, Perception, Thought, Symptom generation).

Nothing consumed by us for nourishment is ever supposed to be within this reserved "energy range". Any substances that DO operate within that range we call medicines or poisons. The ability to interfere with this high-level communication and control system of the Brain, affecting symptom control, is the SOLE medicinal property of these substances.

Any comments, so far? (I am not a Homeopath but a Biochemist/Physiologist looking for the answer.)

[ 26. July 2003, 09:45: Message edited by: Timokay ]

James H. Stephenson, M.D.
Bernardt Fincke, M.D.
Shui Yin Lo, Ph.D.
William A. Tiller, Ph.D.

__________________
Albert, also<br />Hahnemannian444<br />#5904

Shirley,

Thanks for the references on "Potentisation Inquiry". The first one looks like a good start:

Geckeler & Samal :
PASTE START
"A team in South Korea has discovered a whole new dimension to just about the simplest chemical reaction in the book - what happens when you dissolve a substance in water and then add more water. Conventional wisdom says that the dissolved molecules simply spread further and further apart as a solution is diluted. But two chemists have found that some do the opposite: they clump together, first as clusters of molecules, then as bigger aggregates of those clusters. Far from drifting apart from their neighbours, they got closer together.

They even tested "plain old sodium chloride" and the clumping still occurred.

Dilution typically made the molecules cluster into aggregates five to 10 times as big as those in the original solutions. The growth was not linear, and it depended on the concentration of the original solution.

"The history of the solution is important. The more dilute it starts, the larger the aggregates," says Geckeler. Also, it only worked in polar solvents like water, in which one end of the molecule has a pronounced positive charge while the other end is negative."
END OF PASTE

There seems to be a correlation here with the lengthy Homeopathic procedure, where the substance dissolved in the solution is reduced 1:1000000 during trituration, and then 1:50000 BEFORE the potentisation steps begin. I think had Geckeler and Samal used 95% ethanol, and the proper Homeopathic preparation (optimized by Hahnemann) the results would have been better.

There are problems with this solution.
The weight of evidence is with the "subtle energy fields" hypothesis, so it is a matter of proving its existence to the satisfaction of Science, if that is possible at all.

[ 07. July 2003, 16:28: Message edited by: Timokay ]

Timokay,

Have you studied the possibility that the lactose and sucrose ARE contributing actively? Many Homoepaths consider this to be the case.

Thanks to Hahnemannian444B for the useful references. I am not sure about your "Albert, Hahnemannian444 #5904".

I have expanded those references a little below, though I note that they do not particularly succeed with the objective of definitively answering the target question. We need a clear, repeatable & measurable effect, and that will be the objective of this topic.

Refs:
1) James H. Stephenson, M.D.

A. J. Stephenson J
On possible field effects of the solvent phase of succussed high dilutions.
J Am Inst Homeopath 1966 Sep-Oct 59:259-62

B. A. Brucato and J. Stephenson,
Dielectric strength testing of homeopathic dilutions of HgCl2
J Am Inst Homeopath, vol. 59, no. 9, pp. 281-6, 1966.

2) Bernardt Fincke, M.D.

http://www.wholehealthnow.com/homeop...dt_fincke.html
Patent (1869) for the Fincke Potentization Process... [http://www.medicinegarden.com/Homeop...es_Of_Home...]
...higher potencies also increased until in the time of Swan, Fincke and others they reached the highest potencies ever used... [http://www.myvitanet.com/vitanet/boerandtafho.html]
Homeopathy .. Fifty millesimal Potentization ..... Fincke continuous flux ..... Hahnemannian potentization...Homeopathic research ... Basic research in homeopathy [http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/hom-inform/Echthes3.htm]
Dunham's powerful force applied in succussing, Fincke's continuous fluxion and Skinner's interrupted fluxion. Hahnemann...Skinner's potencies are fine and provide us with the higher scale. Fincke potencies are excellent. They were Lippe's favorite. [http://www.lyghtforce.com/homeolist/00002015.htm]

3) Shui Yin Lo, Ph.D.

A. Anomalous State of Ice
Shui-Yin Lo, Modern Physics Letters B, Vol.10, No. 19
(1996) 909-919.
http://pecan.srv.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/u...TG/lo-ice.html

B. Physical Properties of Water with Ie Structures
Shui-Yin Lo,et al
Modern Physics Letters B, Vol.10, No. 19 (1996)
921-930.
http://pecan.srv.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/u...lo-iestru.html
Opinion of Lo's work:
http://www.sbu.ac.uk/water/homeop.html
"Explanation of homeopathy on the basis of water crystals (LO) is unconvincing as such crystals appear to be artifacts and, even as proposed, the effect of body fluid ions would be to immediately 'dissolve' them."

4) William A. Tiller, Ph.D.

http://twm.co.nz/energy_tiller.htm
http://greatspirit.earth.com/tiller.html
http://worldpowers.com/tiller/pubs.html

http://www.biomindsuperpowers.com/Pa...gyActions.html
http://www.rbookshop.com/alternative...0802151205.htm
http://www.lyghtforce.com/King_Bio/Research.htm
http://www.lightworks.com/MonthlyAsp...ly/0799-09.htm

5) Geckeler & Samal

Requirement of a polar solvent.
http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99991532

6) Misc.
Proof for Homeopathy
http://www.marius.net/research.html
http://hem.passagen.se/thebee/SCIENCE/Potprobl.htm

UNDERSTANDING DIGITAL BIOLOGY
http://www.digibio.com/cgi-bin/node.pl?nd=n3

I’ve drafted papers on this a number of different times over at least 15-20 years, but I prefer to not look at that material until I feel more comfortable with my understanding of the issue, for I invariably just get entangled into reading them and adjusting them over many hours without significant changes. These are just a handful of the core facts involved in homeopathic pharmacology for your consideration without any real organization of them.

----------

Because we use ultramolecular drugs, the answer to our pharmacology clearly lies in understanding what is meant by non-physical or etheric particles and the congregate etheric pattern they form as inorganic substances and organisms. Physicists have admitted to these and to major manifestations of them for over 20 years, so it is the same inductive logic they are applying that we will be forced to accept as our explanation. The reason for this is that no physical apparatus can directly detect etheric substance; we can only induce conclusions from effects via general principles about the “multi-dimensional” nature of existence forced by admission to there being non-physical particles and thus to the existence of the Æther, which is the same thing as the Ætheric Plane of existence. It is for this reason that we will forever be quoting Hahnemann and subsequent homeopaths about this no matter how more scientific our explanation becomes.

I'll give a stab at naming as many of these non-physical particles and effects as come to mind, for I’ve practiced at it for about 15-20 years since I figured this out. The most important of them are virtual particles. The mistakes about virtual particles by physicists are irrelevant but similar to those about tachyons, another one.

Tachyons are theorized "phantom photos" [edit to: "phantom photons"] said to "accompany photons" or light particles. That's a mistake. They don’t accompany light particles; they are the same substance, only they’re out of phase or not en rapport with themselves as photons due to their nutating [sic] at a higher rate on a consequently higher plane of existence than their positions as quantum particles of electromagnetic radiation, but they all coincide in exactly the same space. These were, I believe, the first of the 20-odd etheric particles and universe-wide field effects that physicists semi-universally accepted. The reason for their conceptualization and identification as well as for their being named is an enigma called the wave phenomenon of the propagation of light. It's been long known that photons disintegrate into a wave form due to their bucking the speed barrier inherent in the physical universe called the speed of light. It’s therefore perfectly logical that they would go poof into a wave form. What remains inexplicable without tachyons as a "binding force" pushing them back into particulate form (assuming one can speak in such terms about quantum particles of electromagnetic radiation without going crazy) is why they would then just as quickly collapse back into particles. OOps! they said; there is a missing part of the model. Thus came tachyons.

Dark matter is another manifestation of this insane and ridiculously still materialistic model of the universe after having admitted to non-physical particles. The amount of matter in the universe cannot account for the gravitational force observed. OOps! another hole, they said. Thus was borne the concept of so-called dark matter. They are just etheric particles, all of which affect physical matter but only indirectly since physical and etheric matter and energy are simply out of phase with each other and therefore cannot ever directly interact.

Before I proceed, consider what I believe to be the First Question of the Physician: A man dies and something's gone; where was it? Not what was it; the name doesn't matter. It obviously coexisted in the same space as the physical organism, for everything physical remains at death. Where it existed being obvious, the deeper questions come about who we are as beings, what we are, what other things are, how this and that and other stuff. I say this because everyone intuitively knows the answer to the question since it’s obvious, and every child can understand that something left at death. This basic observation about the nature of existence is part of what makes Kent's First Lecture in his LECTURES ON HOMEOPATHIC PHILOSOPHY so important, although they quickly thereafter go down hill into manifold errors. Kent is a whole other subject, but there are at least eight major categories of natural phenomena proving higher planes of existence that are just ignored by materialists. Death is only one of them.

The vacuum energy of empty space is another recent addition to the list of non-physical particles. I don't remember exactly who, where or why this was conceived, but it is another doozy and universe-wide form of etheric or non-physical particles widely accepted today. It starts to get really nauseating to hear them yak-yak about such things but miss the basic conclusion of multiple planes of existence forced by acceptance of non-physical particles. They hedge-hog around it by calling them parallel universes and other meaningless nonsense like multiple dimensions, but we can safely ignore such ignorance as speculations to eventually grow cobwebs like their other materialistic mistakes. Anyway, these of course are conceptualized etheric quanta rather than subatomic particles, but it is the same effect since they aren’t physical but are nonetheless admitted to.

DeBroglie was a Nobel laureate who developed the concept of the subquantic medium. I don't, however, remember why he developed it.

Einstein's cosmological constant is another. I believe that he conceived of this as a safety valve since the mechanistic model he was working within was apparently perceived as having insoluble problems requiring some “basic substance” (which is synonymous with the Æther) within which everything moves and from which everything arose. This conceptualization was seemingly a byproduct of physicists dismissing the Æther with the development of electromagnetism in the 1880s from Rutherford’s experiments and the subsequent development of quantum theory by Planck 20 years later. That is to say, the guys thought they’d figured it out through a materialistic and mechanistic model of the universe, so out went the Æther. Einstein came along a short time later.

By the way, it was Newton’s Ætherial Medium they dismissed, and he was the epitomal mechanist. Poof! Just like that, a bunch of bozos nonetheless decided it was fantasy. You gotta love people with such elaborate sophistries, for they can argue that apples are oranges and convince everyone. Now they’ve got to accept the Æther, for that’s all non-physical particles could be.

Chiu and H.C. Dudley simultaneously developed the concept of the neutrino flux and neutrino sea. Neutrinos have a half-life near infinity. It turns out that nobody can account for all of the neutrinos that have been created by stars since the hypothesized Big Boob (errrror too). We walk around in a sea of neutrinos that pass right through us, for there are 10 to the 11th power of the little buggers in every cubic centimeter of space. Lots and lots of the thingies create a sort of energy sea. I have forgotten what makes them part of this equation since they are physical particles, but it’s in there somewhere.

Blackbody radiation is another. I used to be able to explain what this stuff is but no longer. It is one of those universe-wide field effects, I think, that remains kind on the edge of explanation. Some bigger brain please explain it here.

Cosmic microwave background radiation is another major effect somehow requiring non-physical particles or otherwise being a manifestation of them. Cosmic rays lose energy to the surrounding space in traveling the vast intergalactic distances and then, for some reason, go poof into the cosmic microwave background radiation.

That loss of some unknown energy by quantum particles is, incidentally, the mechanism by which photons spread in wavelength. It’s not because the universe is spreading. T'wernt no Big Bang, folks, and the universe is only 7½ billion years old, not 15 or more.

Quintessence from String Theory is another one. That’s one involving the “primordial matter” conceived of as existing within black holes. Don’t overlook how similar is the term primordial matter to basic substance. I never could wrap my brains around how they ignored that one, but a friend with depth knowledge of modern theoretical and particle physics recently told me that it is obviously synonymous with etheric particles. It made me smile to hear that, for I don’t often have renewed faith in academics.

Worm holes is another form taken on by acceptance of these non-physical particles. We all saw this dramatically represented in Carl Sagan’s movie Contact. I had some correspondence with Carl over a number of years, but I never got the impression that he accepted what I said since he invariably found counterarguments for anything I put forward. Then he would not listen to me when I discovered he had cancer, and he of course soon thereafter died. As usual, that was a tragically premature loss that should make us all cringe and water that it still happens.

There are more examples of non-physical particles and their major manifestations, but that’s enough. The point is that academic science has finally admitted to immaterial substances. What a surprise; that’s exactly what Hahnemann called our stuff.


So about the four above names, James H. Stephenson, M.D., is the most important one. He hypothesized about our pharmacological enigma with tremendous brilliance and insight in a few papers during the 1950s and ’60 [edit: '60s], saying that some force or non-physical particles (don’t quote me there, for I think it may have been a hole in his theory) underlying the matter of our medicines forces the water and alcohol molecules into polymers or “polymeric matrices.” Polymers are molecules formed by single atoms that like their opposite and variously polar ends so much that masses of them bond into three-dimensional aggregates. Epoxies and plastics are polymers. Water and alcohol don’t, however, naturally do this. This is what people mean when they speak about “water memory.” This is, in my opinion, the most likely solution for our pharmacy, and it fits with what Hahnemann and Boeinghausen et al. have been saying over the centuries. Moreover, it matches up with what the Spagyric physicians said about their drugs. Unfortunately, nobody with the means has ever bothered to test his hypothesis. I feel that it could not be that difficult to determine whether or not water and alcohol molecules of our potencies form into polymers, but nobody has ever tested it. It’s going to change chemistry as a science if Stephenson turns out to have been correct, for there simply isn’t any other explanation possible for water and alcohol molecules forming into polymers after serial dilution and succession than that the etheric particles of the crude substance are doing it and are thus maintaining physical space without the physical substance being involved. Again, this is exactly what Hahnemann et al. have all said. Are you ready for the 25th century? It looks like it’s going to come a bit premature, for such a discovery will shake up chemistry and physics at their cores to have to admit to our etheric chemistry and physics. Yeehaw! I say, it’s about time two centuries and more after the fact -- i.e., the Hermetic physicians of ancient Egypt also clearly utilized our pharmacology, so it’s actually millennia and more after the fact -- so let’s get on with it, guys.

Fincke was an American homeopath of the 19th century who made lots of reliable high potencies. He wrote on his ideas about how they could be medicinal as ultramolecular drugs. I can find the reference if you like.

A few years ago, Dr. Lo published his photographs of nanometer-sized water crystals at room temperature resulting from succussed high dilutions. It was a total coincidence that he shook serial dilutions. Michael Quinn of Hahnemann Laboratories in San Raphael, California, by chance discovered this guy’s findings and wrote on it. Dr. Lo’s book has photos and a small amount of text of relevance to us. It is, nonetheless, the eighth of eight natural phenomena proving higher planes of existence because only etheric particles could be causing those polymers of water at room temperature. Neat, huh?

And William A. Tiller, [edit: Ph.D.,] is professor emeritus at Stanford University’s Dept. of Materials Science and Engineering who wrote several papers quite brilliantly on homeopathy and homeopathic pharmacology. He calls etheric particles in our medicines deltrons. Some minor mistakes in his explanations don’t bother me since I spot them, and he is definitely to be read by anybody looking into this subject with an eye toward figuring it out since he would have already considered many possible explanations.

That’s as much as I can muster about this at the moment. Go get ‘em, guy. We need a champion in chemistry.

[ 12. July 2003, 06:39: Message edited by: Hahnemannian444B ]

__________________
Albert, also<br />Hahnemannian444<br />#5904

TimOkay,

Now you will realized that why I asked you in my first post (potentization thread) about potentization concept. Few peoples are saying the medicine is immaterial nature and few are saying the medicine is purely material in nature. If the medicine is immaterial then which thing you are potentizing. Have homeopaths started potentizing soul or spiritual power? Your references also proves it controversial. I hope you have yourself read them in detail.

I again say homeopathic medicine is purely materialistic in nature. These medicines have very sound pathological effects in the body. After the administration of the medicine, speedy chemical changes were seen and observed in the body. These changes were further tested and verified in the lab. These changes were varied time to time with the change of medicine type and potency. This also proves that homeopathic medicines have matter inside which bring exact chemical product just like when we add sodium and chlorine and always get Natrium Muriticum.

Foolish and Non-sense homeopaths can never understand that during proving those were the only chemicals of the crude substance which brought further chemical changes in the body with the chemicals present inside the body and symptoms were appeared. These symptoms noted FOR the medicine in materia medica.

Quinine was given in the crude form (matter) which brought chemical changes inside and outside the body after the reaction between quinine and chemical already present inside the body, as result we noted symptoms in the “HEALTHY” person, later on the same medicine in minute quantity (still in mater form) was given which again brought chemical changes with the reaction of chemical present inside the “PATIENT’s” body and patient has been cured.

In the Hahnemannian time he never used high potencies like cm or dm…. to whom twaddle homeopaths are calling immaterial medicine jus due to the scientific test not available to detect starting material. This is the problem of the science and not ours. So in lieu we can’t say the medicine which was started from matter later on converted to spiritual non material substance. This is rubbish talk, which do not deserve to educated personalities? This sure try to give discredit to homeopathy.

Hahnemann mostly used 3x, 6x, 12c and 18 etc Was he not doing homeopathy? These medicines were all containing matters. He never said the medicine is immaterial in nature. If the medicine is spiritual in nature and no matter is inside then there is no need of proving the crude medicine and requirements of 3000 starting materials.

He just proved he's nothing but an allopathic homeopath or LPH.

Just ignore such people, for Hahnemann, Hahnemannians and HPHs always have.

They have absolutely no clue about homeopathy and should have stayed in allopathy where they belong, for they cannot do homeotherapeutics.

__________________
Albert, also<br />Hahnemannian444<br />#5904

Albert, I agree with your assessment. Also, thanks for an indepth and well thought out paper on non-physical properties of remedies. I would like to share it with the study group with your permission.

__________________
Shirley Reischman