Hello, I am a new member as of last night.
My 5 year old son has most likely been exposed to whooping cough about 10 days ago when I was unaware of the other child carrying whooping cough. Both children are not vaccinated.
The question whether to give nosodes (in this case Pertussin) as a kind of homeopathic vaccination is disputable.
Does anybody have any experience?
Theoratically I believe that we shouldn't treat until there are symptoms. My son is starting to cough, but as well as the initial stage of whooping cough, this could be just a fall cold. As a mum, my homeopathic believes are being put to a test, because I certainly don't want him to have to go into full blown whooping cough!
I have also just given him a remedy (Ars.alb) for his school fears, restless sleep and insecurity and don't want to interfere with this if I don't have to.
I would appreciate any comment. Thanks.
KarinC

Hallo karin
The pertussinum is a potentized product of Whopingcough. Through the potentization process the product is altered in that way also, that in a proving it wouild not exactly bring out the whopingcough symptoms.
therefore giving pertussinum as a preventative for Whopingcough does not work.
Greetings from Ireland, hans

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cure by symptom similarity!<br /><a href="http://www.Boger-Boenninghausen.com/" target="_blank">www.Boger-Boenninghausen.com/</a>

Dear Hans,
Does that mean that one should disegard experiences of Dorothy Shepherd, Devon Homeopath treating cases of full blown whooping cough (250 cases)and preventing with Pertussin 30c (364 cases)?
Regards angela

Just to add to previous post...
Hahnemann developed 2 fundamental case analysis strategies for treating individuals and collective groups. 1) for individual simillimum for those uniquely affected (org.153) and 2) for disease of common cause and similar symptoms which affect homogenous groups (org. 101,102,103)
1799 Hahnemann treated cases of scarlet fever curatively and prophylactically with Belladonna. Results published 1801 'Cure and prevention of Scarlet fever" part of Lesser Writings.
Sorry to go on [img]redface.gif[/img]

[ 09 September 2001: Message edited by: angelamurlowska ]

hallo to all
Interesting in that context is, that hahnemann, as well as other contemporaries, did not us scarlatinum.
he first established the ''genius epidemicus'' and then found the remedies to treat. of those he selected Bell. because it brought out in the proving the most similar symptoms. With this recommendation he also warns, that the next epedemie could need different remedies, depending on the symptoms present.

you write, that dorothee Sheppard claims, to have successfully treated and even prevented a larger amount of whoopincough patients with pertussinum.

I think that this claim is unreasonable, because she can not show, that these cases are actually cured, or prevented,(they could just as well only be supressed). She is not in the position to claim to have cured, as pertussinum is not homeopathically proven, and therefore, we have no reliable information which symptoms can be brought out, and therefor be cured, following the simile law.

The dissapearance of a symptom alone does not rectify the claim to have it cured!!
Only, if the symptom in question, which has dissapeared under the influence of a remedy, is also a provingsymptom of this remedy, we can claim to have cured according to the simile law.

Greetings from Ireland, hans

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cure by symptom similarity!<br /><a href="http://www.Boger-Boenninghausen.com/" target="_blank">www.Boger-Boenninghausen.com/</a>

Hello All,

my computer was sick, therefore I haven't been able to respond for a while. It did a proving of electricity (power surge).

Hans, I couldn't resist giving the Pertussin when I was getting sure about the infection. Now we're into second stage whooping cough, although I don't have an official diagnosis. I can't imagine this being a proving to a single dose.

But I also don't know whether the little patient would be in a worse state if I hadn't given it, nor do I know if the nosode had been able to prevent it had it been given earlier (in the incubation period rather than in first stage).

I am with you Hans, in that we can never know what really went on. In that respect there seems to be an awful lot of second guessing involved in homoeopathy! I still think though, that there must be some validity to the experiences of Dorothy Sheperd that you quoted, Angela. Whooping cough normally has a 80-90% contagion index. So if only half the neighbourhood kids got sick instead of 80-90%, something must have gone right!

For lack of a more experienced homoeopath I am now treating my son myself as best I can, trying to keep my cool over those awful coughing fits.

I would appreciate more of your feedback on the actual treatment of whooping cough. With almost everyone vaccinated in North America, there are not a lot of practitioners out there who have even seen it.

Thanks and regards,
Karin

Hi Karen,
I have Boenninghausen's book - Whooping Cough - so if you want me to look anything up for you...let me know .
Lisa

__________________
"The significance of a fact is measured by the capacity of the observer."
Carroll Dunham

Hi Karen,
I have also posted (much more) the info on the School's Forum...

And here is the info about the Second Stage from the book:

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> To the second stage - Ambra, Antimon crud., Antimon tart., Arnica, Cina, Cuprum,
Digitalis, Drosera, Hepar, Ign, Iod, Kali, Lach, Led, Lyc, Mag carb, Sambucus, Sepia,
Sil, Squilla, Stannum, Stam, Sulph, Sulph ac, Veratrum and Zincum.

To the third stage - Ars alb, Bell, Bry, Calc, China, Conium, Dulc, Ign, Iod, Kali,
Kreos, Laurocerasus, Moschus, Muriatic ac, Phos, Phos ac, Sambucus, Senega,
Stannum, Sulphur and Zincum.

Among the remedies which correspond moe or less to the period of childhood and
may therefore be especially appropriate for it, the following may be name:

Aconite, Ambra, Anacardium, Antimonium tart., Baryta, Bell, Bry, Calc, Cham, Cina,
Drosera, Hepar, Hyos, Ign, Ipec, Kal, Kreos, Lyc, Magnesia, Magnesia mur, Mercurius, Nat mur, Nux vom, Sabadilla, Sil, Spong, Staph, Stram, Sulph and Veratrum.

(it then goes on to list for adults and old persons...which I have left out)

When, notwithstanding the most careful selection from among the remedies indicated for the first stage, the tranistion to the second stange has proved inevitable, it will be advisable, in most cases, next to direct one's attention to the following table in which those remedies are arranged, which are most frequently appropriate after those which are firstnamed in each series have been homeopathically indicated and administered:

ACONITE - Arn, Dros, Lyc, Merc, Sep, Sil, Sulph.

BELLADONNA - Antimon tart, Calc, Cina, Cupr, Dig, Hepar, Iod, Lach, Merc, Sep, Sil,
Stram, Sulph.

BRYONIA - Dig, Kali, Led, Lyc, Mezereum, Sep, Squilla, Verat.

CARBO ANIMAL. - Dros, Ign, Sil, Sulph acid.

CARBO VEG. - Dros, Ign, Kali, Lach, Merc, Nat mur, Sep, Sulph, Verat.

CAUSTICUM - Cupr, Hepar, Ign, Lach, Lyc, Nat mur, Sep, Sil, Sulph, Sulph acid.

CHAMOMILLA - Cina, Hepar, Ign, Lyc, Magnesia, Stam, Sulph.

CONIUM - Antimon tart, Cuprum, Dig, Lach, Lyc.

DULCAMARA - Cupr, Led, Merc, Sep, Sulph.

EUPHRASIA - Arn, Hepar, Merc, Nat mur, Senega.

IPECACUANHA - Antimon crud, Antimon tart, Arn, Calc, Cupr, Dros, Ign, Sulphuric
Ac, Verat.

MERCURIUS - Antimon crud, Arn, Cina, Cupr, Dig, Hepar, Iod, Lach, Lyc, Mezereum,
Sep, Sil, Sulph.

MEZEREUM - Merc, Sil.

NUX VOM - Ambra, Cupr, Dig, Dros, Ign, Kali, Lach, Lyc, Magnesia, Mer, Nat mur,
Sep, Sil, Stram, Sulph.

PULSATILLA - Ambra, Antimon crud, Antimon tart, Arn, Cupr, Dig, Ign, Kali, Lach,
Led, Lyc, Magnesia, Merc, Nat mur, Sep, Sil, Stann, Sulph, Sulph Ac.

SABADILLA - Ambra, Antimon crud, Cina, Puls, Sep, Sulph, Verat.

VERATRUM - Arn, Cina, Cupr, Dros, Merc, Sep, Stram.

VERBASCUM - Ambra, Mezereum, Phos, Puls, Verat.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hope this helps .
Lisa

[ 26 September 2001: Message edited by: LisaAnnan ]

Hi everyone,

Lisa, thanks again for typing out all that information!
My son is continuing to get better, so I am not giving any remedy. The last dose of Cocc-c was given a week ago.

I have just read through the previous posts again, and noticed that I talked about a "lack of more experience practitioners". I do hope I didn't offend anyone! I was talking about the town where I live and where I am one of three homeopaths with rather limited experience...

Hans, Lisa mentioned that you might be able to share some of your experience in treating whooping cough. Would you mind?

Thanks and regards

Karin