Hello all,
just another thought. I have noticed again how common it is for even trained homeopaths to use standard remedies, e.g. always Drosera for whooping cough.
I came across Margaret Tyler's essay on Drosera, where she goes on and on about the benefits of the remedy and its almost specific relation to whooping cough. Tyler: "if you think that Drosera will cure every case of whooping cough that comes along, you will discover sooner or later that it is not so. In one epidemic it is recorded that Kali carb was the remedy and cured every case."
This must also go for Pertussin. So why do we give it in the first place? I must admit that I was driven by fear and the thought that it cannot hurt...
Karin

Just pasting this here - in case anyone wants to jump in and help you out Karin . (Karin asked on our School's Forum for me to post info from the Whooping Cough book Rep).

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>
Hi Karen,
I'm just going to type everything I can find that would remotely fit what you have given (going through the rep page by page)

I would defer to Hans, on your question Do we use symptoms that were there before the acute?.

Anyhow, let's have a go and maybe Hans or others will jump in and lend a hand.

I will list all the headings starting with Character of the Cough (without the remedies except where they match what you've given) - if you find that one of them that I haven't fully listed actually better describes his cough - then tell me and I will list the remedies under that particular rubric . I hope that is okay....
*also, I will leave out rubrics that are obviously not applicable (i.e. menses, debauchery, etc)

Repertory (begins on page 120)
I Character of the Cough

Asthmatic;
Barking;
Clear;
Concussive;
Croupy;
Crowing;
insipirations, with;
Deep;
Exhausting;
Fatiguing;
Frequent;
Hacking;
Hoarse;
Hollow;
Hooping Cough (true);
Incessant;
Paroxysm, consisting of two coughs; Puls
three coughs; Stann
but few coughs; Bell, Calc, Laur.
short coughs; Alum, Ant tart, Asag, Calc, Carb veg, Kali bich, Lact vir.

Rough;
Screeching;
Soundless;
Spasmodic; Acon, Bad, Bar, Bell, Bry, Calc, Carb veg, Cepa, Con, Coral, Dig, Ferr, Hyos, Ignat, Iod, Ipec, Kali, Kreos, Lach, Lact vir, Mosch, Nat mur, Nit acid, Phos, Phos acid, Puls, Rhus, Sep, Sil, Squill, Staph, Stram, Sulph, Zinc.

Suffocating;
Tickling;
Trumpet-toned;
Unintermitting;
Violent;
Wheezing;
Whistling; Acon, Ars, brom, Hep. Kreos, Laur

II The Cough Excited by:

In the:
Abdomen - Irritation;
Bronchia - Soreness and heat;
Chest - Constriction;
Creeping;
Dryness;
Itching;
Mucous;
Scraped sensation, as if;
Scratching;
Spasm;
Tickling;

In the:
Epigastrum - Irritation;
Oppression;

Larynx - Burning;
Constriction;
Creeping;
Dryness;
Itching;
Mucous;
Piercing;
Plug(or valve) - Sensation of a;
Roughness;
Scratching;
Spasm;
Tickling;
-extending to the lung;
-insupportable;
-low in the larynx;
-severe;
as from Sugar dissolving;

In the:
Supra-Sternal Fossa - Burning;
Irritation;
Tickling extending to the mid-sternum;

In the region of:
Thyroid Body - Irritation;

In the:
Trachea - Burning;
Constriction;
Creeping;
Dryness;
Dust, sensation of, in the trachea and behind the sternum, not relieved by coughing;

Feather or awn of barley in one of the bronchia, and swaying to and fro with the respiration, sensation of a;

Heat;
Itching;
Mucous;
Piercing pain;
Roughness;
Scratching;
Tickling;
at the bifurcation;

In the:
Throat - as from down;
a smothering in the;
as if vapour of Sulphur were;
Tickling;


III Periodicity
a. Of the Paroxysms

In General;

Paroxysms - long;
Occasional;
Short;
Two in quick succession; Merc, Sulph

b. Of the Expectoration
Day and night with expectoration; Dulc

Day and night without expectoration;

Day with, night without expectoration;

Night with, day without expectoration;

Evening with, morning without expectoration;

Morning with, evening without expectoration;

IV Expectoration

a. In General

Can not expectorate (that which is detached by coughing must be swallowed); Arn, Caust, Dros, Kali, Lach, Mur acid, Sep, Spong.

Difficult
Easy
InfrequentAcon, Alum, Arn, Bell, Ignat.
Scanty; Acon, Ars, Chan, Cup, Dig, Samb, Sang, Spong
Acrid
Albumen-like
Blackish
Blood
bright;
brownish;
frothy;
in masses;

Mixed with Blood;
Cold;
Dust;
Flying forcibly our of the mouth;
From deep in the lungs;
Frothy;
Gelatinous;
Greenish;
Gray;
Indurated;
Lumpy (in masses);
Milk-like;
Mucous;
Mucous profuse;
Purulent;
Rust coloured;
Stringy;
Tough;
Watery (thin);
Whitish;
Yellow;
Lemon-yellow;

c. Taste

Bitter;
Like old Cattarh;
Empyreumatic;
Fatty;
Flat;
Herbacous;
Metallic;
Putrid;
Repulsive;
Salt;
Sour;
Sweetish;
Tasteless;
Like Tobacco-juice;
Offensive-smelling;

There is an Appendix for Taste *Because of their rarity, the peculiarities of the expectoration here appended, were no inserted in the text. They may howecer, sometimes afford aid in the selection of the remedy.

Here they are:
Taste

Like Almonds;
Broth of Meat;
boiled Cabbage;
Chalk;
Cheese;
putrid cheese;
Copper;
Dung;
Earth;
spoiled Eggs;
yolk of Egg;
Faeces;
Fish;
putrid Flesh;
Herrings;
Ink;
Iron;
Meal;
Milk

Mouldy;

Like Onions;
Oranges;
Peaches-kernels;
raw Peas;
Pepper;

Rancid;
Smoky;
Like Soap;
Sugar;
Sulphur;
Tar;
Urine;
putrid Water;
Wine;
Wood;

Odor.

Empyreumatic;
Like Garlic;
Milk
Russia-leather
Violets;
Sour;


Aggravations
1 According to time
Evening;
Night; Acon, Alum, Amb, Anac, Ant tart, Ars, Bell, Bry, Calc, Carb an, Cham, Cocc, Cact, Con, Coral, Dulc, Hyos, Ipec, Kali, Lact vir, Magn, Magn mur, Meph, Merc, Phos, Sang, Seneg, Sil, Sticta, Verb

Before Midnight; Arn, Bar, Carb veg, Caust, Ferr, Led, Lyc, Magn, Magn mur, Mezer, Mosch, Mur acid, Nit acid, Puls, Rhus, Rumex c, Sabad, Sep, Spong, Squill, Stann, Staph, Sulph, Sulph acid, Verat, Zinc.

About Midnight; Dig, Magn, Magn mur, Samb

After Midnight; Acon, Bell, Chin, Dros, Hyos, Kali, Nux Vom, Samb.

During the Day; Euphr, Lach, Laur, (nit acid), Staph.
Day and Night; Cup, Ignat.
At the same hour (every day); Lyc, Sabad
Every other day; Anac, Lyc
Every third day; Anac

2 According to Circumstances

In the open Air;
on going out into;
From Anger;
with Grief;
with Indignation;
with Fright;

From Ascending (going up hill or stairs);
Before getting Asleep;
In the Autumn;
On Awaking;
From Inspiration;
Of Cold Air;
Keeping Late Hours;
From Bending the body forwards;
Backwards;
From Bread;
Black Bread;
In Cellars;
After Chicken-pox;
In Church;
From Abuse of Chinchona;
tight Clothing;
Coal gas;
Coffee;
the Odour of Coffee;
becoming Cold;
a part becomes Cold;
After taking Cold;
getting cold in the feet;
From taking Cold;
Cold;
Cold Air;
Cold Damp Air;
Cold Dry Air;
inhaling Cold Air;
Continued Coughing;
Crying;
a Current of Air;
From Deep Inspiration;
After Drinking;
From Drinking;
Cold Drinks;
Drinking Cold Water;
warm Drinks;
Drinking rapidly;
Driving in an open Wagon;
After Eating;
Eating Fat;
Eating Meat;
From Eating;
Eating Cold things;
Eating hastily;
Eating solid food;
Eating Warm things;
Emotion;
assuming the Erect position;
Eructations;
repercussed Eruptions;
In the (open)Evening Air;
From Excess;
Excitment; Lob, Spong
Exertion of body; Arn, Bry, Dulc, Ferr, Iod, Ipec, Lyc, Merc, Nat mur, Sil, Squill, Verat.
of Mind; Arn, Ignat, Nux vom,
Expiration;
Disordered stomach caused by eating Fat;

When fasting;
From the glimmering of Fire;
After Fright;
with Anger
From Fruit;
Grief and Care;
looking at something Glistening; (water)
turning the Head;
becoming Heated;

After being Heated;
Laughing;
heavy Lifting;
Loss of Fluids;

When lying down;
in Bed;
upon the Back;
upon the side;
Lying down with the Head low;
From Lying or sitting long in the same position;
After lying down;
From Manual labour;
After Measles;
From Milk;
At the New Moon;
Full Moon;
From Motion;
of the Arms;
Commencing;
vigourous;

After Motion;
From Music;
Noise;
blowing;
strong Odours;
From Pepper;
From Pressue upon the larynx;
Pungent food;
Reading;
-aloud
During Repose;
From deep Respiration;
Riding;
Rising;
In the Room;
Warm room;
From Running;
Salt Food;
After Scarlatina;
From Singing;
When Sitting;
erect;
during Sleep;
After Sleep;
after dinner;
From Smoke;
Smoking tobbaco;
Sneezing;
In Society; (of strangers)
From Sour food;
Speaking;
Spiritous drinks;
being Spoken to by others;
In the Spring of the Year;
When Standing;
erect;
still during a walk;
From Stimulating food;
Stooping;
Stretching out the Arms;
In the hot Sun;
From Empty Swallowing;
After Sweat; Sil
From Sweetmeats;
Sugar;
drinking Tea;
During a change of Temperature;
From Thinking about the sickness;
In teh air of a Thunder-storm;
From Tobacco-smoke;
Touch;
Touching the Throat;
Trachea in the Supra-Sternal fossa;
Turning in Bed;
Uncovering;
a part of the body;
the feet or the head;
In Vaulted apartments;
From becoming Vexed;
Vinegar;
Walking;
in the open air;
rapdily;
After Walking Rapidly;
From Warmth;
In Warm Air;
From Becoming Warm;
in bed;
Coming in Warm Air;
Washing;
Weeping (children)
Getting Wet Through;
Drinking Wine;
Change of Weather;
In the Wind;
During the East Wind;
the North Wind;
In Winter;
With Worm- Symptoms;
From Writing;
Yawning;

3. Ameliorations

After Breakfast;
By Change of Position;
Suppessing the Cough;
Drinking;
Cold water;
When eating;
By Discharging Flatusup and down;
[B]Deep Inspiration;
Sitting Up;
Inhaling Warm Air;
Becoming Warm in Bed;


Concomitant Symptoms
1 Disposition
Alone, unwilling to be; Ars, Dros, Mezer, Stram, Verb.
Alternating states of mind; Carb an, Cup, Dig, Ferr, Ignat, Sabad, Sulph acid, Verb, Zinc.
Anguish (anxiety);
Answer, will not;
Anthrophobia;
Anxiety;
Apathy;
Apprehenstions;
Aversion to Work;
Beside Oneself, seems to be;
Care, full of (about household concerns);
Captiousness;
Cheerfulness;
in the morning;
Complaining;
Concern about one's health;
the future;
Content, morning;
Cowardice;
Crying out;
Death, premonition of;
dread of;
Dejection;
Delight in Mischief;
Depression;
Despair;
of recovery;
Despise, dispostion to;
Despondency;
Dread of Strangers;
death;
ghosts;
men;
Earnestness;
Escape, disposition to;
Excitability;
under insults;
Faintheartedness;
Faultfinding disposition;
Feeling, lack of moral;
Future, concern about the;
Gaiety;
in the morning;
Gentleness;
Grief;
Hastiness;
of Speech;
Health, concern about one's;
Hopelessness;
of recovery;
Howling;
Humming and Singing;
Impatiences;
Indifference;
Insanity;
Insatiability;
Intolerance of Music;
Introverted Condition;
Irascibility;
Irresolution;
Irritated Condition;
Lamentation;
Laughing;
aversion to;
Light, longing for;
Life, weariness of;
Loquacity;
Melancholy;
Men, dread of;
hatred of;
Misantrhopy;
Mischief, delight in;
Moral Feeling, lack of;
Moroseness;
in the evening;
Music, intolerance of;
Obstinancy (especially in children); Bell, Calc, Dros, Merc, Nit acid, Sil, Spong.
Peevishness; Bry, Carb veg, Cham, Kali, Kreos, Nat mur, Nit acid, Staph, Sulph, Verat, Verb.
with indignation; Staph

Play, indisposition to;
Premonition; of death;
Projects, full of;
Quarrelsomeness;
Rage, after insult;
Resentment, long, after insult;
Restlessness;
with tossing in bed;
Run away, disposition to;
Sadness;
in the evening;
Sensibility;
Seriousness;
Singing and Humming;
Solcitude;
Spitefulness;
Spoken to, cannot bear to be;
Strangers, dread of;
Striking about one;
Taciturnity;
Terror;
at noise;
Timidity;
during a thunderstorm;
Trouble of Mind;
Vehemence;
Wearniness of life;
Weeping;
Weep, disposition to;
Whining;
Yielding disposition;

2 Sensorium
Alternating states of mind;
Confusion of the Head;
Dizziness;
Dread of Mental Occupation;
Ecstatic state of mind;
Imagining of symptoms;
Inability to collect one's senses;
Loss of Consciousness;
almost;
Mania;
Reeling;
Stupefaction;
Stupidity;
Two opposing Wills;
Vertigo;
from assuming the erect posture;
coming over from the nape of the neck;
inclining on to fall fowards;
from shaking the head;
without loss of sight and hearing;

3 Head Internal
**I've not listed anything here - but if you think of anything I will look it up for you.

4 Head External
Covering; intolerable;
Heat of the head;
Inclining the head backwards;
Sensitivity to gentle touch;
Sinking of the head backwards;
Swaying hither and thither;
Sweat; Ant tart, Calc.
Twitching of the head forwards and backwards;

5 Eyes
(Again - not listing everything)

Blue rings, around the eyes;
Burning in the eyes;
Much Dilated Pupils;
Dryness of the eyes, in the evening;
in the room;
Dull appearance;
Eyelids tender;
Feeling as if pressed outwards;
Inflammation of the eyes;
Catarrho-strumous;
Lachrymation; Acon, Brom, Calc, Carb veg, Cepa, Cina, Euph, Help, Ipec, Kali, Kreos, Merc, Nat mure, Pul, Rhus, Sabad, Staph, Sulph.

[B]Lacrymation[b] acrid; Euph, Merc, Nar mur.
Smarting; Euph, Kreos
in the morning; Calc
in the open air; Sulph
Livid Eyelids;
Phlyctenula towards the inner canthus;
Photophobia;
Pressure of blood to the eyes;
Protrusion of the eyes;
Puffiness about the eyes;
Pupils very much dilated; (oddly, Bell is not listed here)
Redness of the eyes;
Sparkling eyes;
Sparks before the eyes;
Staring look;
Swelling between the lids and brows;
below the eyes;
of the upper lids;
Sunken eyes;
Tension in the eyes;
Trembling of the upper lids;
Veil before the eyes, like a;
Yellow-brown rings around the eyes;
Yellowness of the white of the eye

6 Ears (let me know if any sx)
7 Nose (ditto)

8 Face
Coldness;
Colour of the face (complexion)-black;
-blood red; Stram
-bluish; Ars, Bad, Dig, Dros, Hyos, Ipec, Lach, Nux vom, Samb, Staph, Verat.
-brownish;
-earthy-pale; Iod, Kreos, Nat mur, Zinc
-livid; Dros
-pale;
-with red spots; Sulph
-red; Acon, Bry, Hep, Hyos, Ipec, Lyc, Mur acid, Sabad, Samb, Sil, Squill, Staph, Stram, Sulph.

Colour of the face-dark red; Bar, Coral r, Squill, Stram.
-redness, circumscribed, of the cheeks; Lyc, Samb.
-glowing, of the cheeks; Mur Acid, Sil.
-after eating; Sil
-red - on one side only; Cham, Ipec, Mosch.
-one cheek red, without heat; the other pale and hot; Mosch.
-bluish red; Bell, Staph.
-as if one had been up all night; Staph
-waxy; Sil
-sickly; Staph, Sulph
-yellow; Lyc, Magn mur, Puls, Sep, Verat.
-around the eyes; Nit acid, Nux v,
-around the mouth; Nux v, Sep
-across above the nose and cheeks; Sep.

Convulsions;
Drawing in the cheeks;
Expression, anxious;
-deformed;
-distorted;
Heat;
-flashes of;
-from the chest;
-after eating;
Malar Bone, pains in;
aching, in;
Piercing pains [stitches] in the cheeks;
Prosopalgia;
Puffiness of the face;
-around the eyes;
-under the eyes;
Rings around the eyes; see under "Eyes";

Shocks [blows] upon the zygoma;
Sunken face;
Sweat;Ant tart, cham, ignat, samb, sulph.
-clammy; cham
-cold; sulph
-hot; cham
-of the forehead; Acon, ant tart, carb veg, cina, dros, ipec, kali, staph, verat.

Tension;
Twitchings in the facial muscles;
Wrinkles in the face;

---------
Lips; black;
-bleeding;
-blue;
-burn - upper lips;
-chap;
-under the lip;
Lips; dryness of;
Lips peel;
-soreness of the upper;
-stiffness of the upper;
-sweat of the upper;
-swelling of the upper;
-lower;
-Uclers;

9 Teeth (let me know)
10 Mouth a. buccal cavity, b. pharynx, c. saliva, d.tongue, (again, let me know). Also includes SPEECH(lessness as well) and VOICE.

11 Appetite (let me know)
12 Thirst (ditto)
13 Taste (ditto)
14 Eructations (ditto)
15 Nausea & Vomitting (ditto)
16 Stomach (ditto)
17 Hypochondria (ditto)
18 Abdomen (ditto)
19 Abdominal Muscles (ditto)
20 Stool & Anus (ditto)
21 Urine (ditto)
22 Genital (ditto)
23 Coryza (ditto)
24 Breath & Respiration (ditto) *there is also an Asthma section under number 24.
25 Trachea a. larynx, b.trachea.(ditto)
26 External Throat (ditto) includes nape of neck sx.
27 Thorax a. internal throrax, b. region of heart, c. external thorax (ditto)
28 Back (ditto)
29 Upper Extremities (ditto)
30 Lower Ext (ditto)

31 Generalities (not listing all)
Attacks, hysterical, alternate laughing and crying; Alum.

Asleep, the parts on which he lies become;

Bruised, the limbs pain as if;
-in the morning;
Burning in the whole body;
-in the limbs;
-in the lower half of the body;
Carried, contantly desires to be;
Change, continual, in all the symptoms;
Cracking of the joints;
Debility, great;
- and weariness;
Dread of being washed, (in children); Sulph
Dryness, sensation of, through the whole body;
Emaciation;
Exhaustion after the paroxysms of the cough; Dig, Spong
Heaviness of the limbs;
Involuntary movements of the head and limbs;
Jerkings through the body;
Lie Down, desire to constantly;
-cannot endue to, on the painful side
Reaction of the vital power, lack of;
Restlessness in the body;
Tossing of the limbs;
Trembling of the limbs;
Twitchings of the limbs;
Weakness;
-excessive;
-beginning in the chest

32 Sleep
Yawning; Anac, Ant tart, Arn, Brom, Ignat, Kreos, Lyc, Nux vom, Phos, Rhus, Zinc.
-after the paroxysms; Anac
-spasmodic; Ignat, Rhus
-and stretching of the limbs; Cham, Rhus

more in this section (it began with Yawning) on Sleep...let me know...

33 Fever (has he had any??) a. circulation, b. cold stage, c. hot stage, d. Sweat


That is pretty much the whole repertory (as far as the sections go). Obviously i have not listed everything here.

I don't know if this helps at all...but I hope so. And, if you need any other rubrics with the remedies listed fully - let me know
- make sure you say which heading and number it falls under - or it might be a real hunt-peck session to find it .<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sincerely,
Lisa

[ 02 October 2001: Message edited by: LisaAnnan ]

__________________
"The significance of a fact is measured by the capacity of the observer."
Carroll Dunham

Lisa,

I admire your patience and commitment!!
Thanks for the above, I will make use of it too.

warm regards,
doctorleela

__________________
http://www.homeopathy2health.com

Lisa,

How can I ever thank you!

I am debating between Anac. and Cina.

Anac. has the yawning after cough, agg. every other day which is something I noticed, too.

In Lilienthal's Therapeutics last night I came across sth under Cina which I had noticed but not been able to put into a rubric. It's CLUCKING SOUND IN THE OESOPHAGUS AFTER COUGH. It sounds really weird, like he is swalling several times, but it's spasmodic. Cina happens to have a lot of his constitutional sx, but I e-mailed Hans and he said to stick with the acute sx for now.

Would you mind looking up AGGRAVATION morning (hoarse cough), DAY AND NIGHT WITHOUT EXPECTORATION?

Hope I can redo the favour some time.

Thanks again,
Karin

Hi Karin (hi Dr Leela ),
You are most welcome.

I'm on it .

And, I really hope this helps. Oh - glad to know Hans helped out with your question about looking at only acute sx or including const sx...- it's nice for me, that I actually remembered what he said . Geeez - taking in so much these days....and trying to synthesise it in my brain .
Lisa

[ 03 October 2001: Message edited by: LisaAnnan ]

__________________
"The significance of a fact is measured by the capacity of the observer."
Carroll Dunham

AGGRAVATION MORNING; Acon, Alum (Caust), Chel, Chin, Cina, Dig, Iod, Ipec, Kreos (Nat Mur), Nux vom, Phos acid, Squill, Staph, Stram, Verat.

Karin, You'll notice that Caust and Nat Mur are in brackets - following other remedies. Maybe Hans can say why Boenninghausen listed them this way?? Perhaps Caust is a follow on too Alum and Nat mur a follow on to Kreos?? Not sure, but it is probably worth finding out, if you find in the end he needs one of those remedies.

Here is the next one I found:
From "Character of the Cough"

Hoarse; Asaf, Carb an, Cepa, Chin, Eupat perf, Verb.

Here is the one from;
PERIODICITY:
a. of the Paroxysms

Paroxysms, Day and Night without Expectoration; Acon, Bell, Brom, Kreos, Laur, Mosch, Stram, Verb.

I think it is very important to forget about his constitutional symptoms for now - if you can set them aside - and just deal with his acute - esp before it goes into a deeper stage of cough. Just prescribe on his presenting acute symptoms only. Then see what happens.

If there is anything further you need - let me know - it is no problem. Just be aware that as of 8 Oct I won't be available for about 10 days or so - if you need anything before then - you could also email me if you need too.

OH! I just realised - looking through this - I have left out something possibly important! I've pasted it below and ADDED that which I simply missed when orginially typing it.


Paroxysm,
consisting of two coughs; Puls
three coughs; Stann
but few coughs; Bell, Calc, Laur.
short coughs; Alum, Ant tart, Asag, Calc, Carb veg, Kali bich, Lact vir.

and here is what I missed:
(adding onto the above)
-the first cough the most violent, the suceeding coughs weaker and weaker; Ant crud
-commencing with gasping for breath; Coral
-the coughs rapidly following one another; Ant tart, Dros, Help, Ipec, Sep, Sulph.

maybe this applies - maybe it doesn't...sorry about that!

Karin, I hope you get this wee guy sorted. I have so much sympathy when it comes to one's children . I'm terrible when either of my two are ill.

Could you please list out the rubrics you are using? I will also look in my other repertory for the same rubrics (it is Boenninghausen's CHaracteristics and Repertory) and I'll list which rem's are ranked 1, 2, 3, 4, or 5. (As you probably know - his ranking system was diff from Kent.) In any case - if you go ahead and list the symptoms/rubrics you choose to best describe your son's acute illness - then perhaps Hans and others will lend a hand in helping to come to a conclusion on the best remedy for him now.

All the best,
Lisa

__________________
"The significance of a fact is measured by the capacity of the observer."
Carroll Dunham

Hi Karen, the rubrics ARE in my other rep - Bn's Characteristics and Rep.

Please list the rubrics you will use to re-rep his case.

I will then list the remedies under those rubrics WITH their ranking (that is not in the whooping cough book for some strange reason!). Anyhow, please list the rubrics and I'll do is asap.

__________________
"The significance of a fact is measured by the capacity of the observer."
Carroll Dunham

Hi Lisa,

Yes, it is hard when your own kids are sick. I am pretty much useless then and would love to have a family homeopath. Alas, Canada is a developing country as far as homeopathy goes!

Anyway, thanks again!

I repertorized again as follows:

1. Cough, whooping cough
2. morning
3. evening
4. cough, yawning
(I noticed later that there is also a rubric under sleep re: cough and yawning)
5. eyes, lachrymation, cough with
6. stomach, retching with cough
7. throat, gurgling oesophagus, coughing after

As for # 7, this is described in different in different MM, some call it a "clucking sound", or a sound like water poured down into a bottle. Cina is the only remedy here, and as far as I can tell it is a truly STRANGE, RARE AND PECULIAR symptom. What do you think?

A lot of the other modalities and concomitants are constantly changing. One day it is with hoarseness, the next day it's gone. Rattling one day, the next day dry. One night perspiration during sleep, the next night none. Ditto with excitement and exertion. There hasn't been much fever, expect in the first (catarrhal) stage. I could give a different rx every few hours! The a/m symptoms are pretty much the only constant ones.

Puls also came up high, but I gave that intitially w/o much success. Also Bry, Carbo-v and Verat, but they don't fit the mental state.

Cina covers those rubrics, and is the only remedy in this funny clucking sound rubric. I gave one dose today and will see what happens next.

And while I left constitutional (old) symptoms aside, I couldn't help but notice that Cina also has "boring in nose" and "biting nails", two things that my little guy has been doing for the past year when we were abroad for several months and he hat a major stomach upset. As far as I remember, he didn't do much of that while he was really sick, but started again in the last few days since he has been feeling better. I don't know what to make of it yet, so I'll sit tight again.

Do you have any other ideas?

Thank you for your help,
warmest regards,
Karin

BTW, I love your signature: There is indeed so much more to learn...

Hi Karin,

I realise you have tried Cina now and you will need to wait and see what happens..but this info will at least be on hand.

Also - that his symptoms KEEP changing - that is definitely a Puls characteristic - but my knowledge of the MM is far too limited to say it is the only remedy w/ that characteristic. So, perhaps it will be in some of the others that are listed? Remember too - just because Puls didn't work before - doesn't mean it won't work (if Cina doesn't do it) now....perhaps the potency was wrong(?? dunno..just thinking out loud here).

The other thing that occured to me - is that he has moved from the catarrhal stage and into the second stage of Whooping Cough. So, Puls may well do in this (2nd) stage if you find the Cina doesn't work!? I will post separately - more info about the second-phase of this ailment from the Whooping Cough book after i finish this post .

Here are the rankings of the remedies in the rubrics you listed above, with '5' being highest/most important and '1' being lowest:
CAPTIALS = 5
bold = 4
italics = 3
roman (normal type) = 2
(roman in parenthesis/brackets) = 1 and this is hardly seen throughout the repertory - it is said they are doubtful remedies and require critical study.

1)Cough, Whooping Cough; Acon, amb, anac, arn, ant-c, ant-t arn, ars, bar-c, Bell, bry, calc-c, Carb-v, cham, chin, CINA, COC-C, con, Cup, DRO, dulc, eupr, fer, hep, hyos, Ign, iod, Ip, Kali-c, lach, lau, led, lyc, MEPH, merc, mez, mos, mur-ac, nat-m, nit-ac, Nux-v, op, par, phos, Puls, rhus-t, rut, samb, seng, sep, sil, spo, sul, sul-ac, Ver-a.

Here is a possibility found in this Rep:
1 a) Whooping Cough,
-catarrhal phase; ACO, ant-t, carb-v, Dul, ip, nux-v, puls.
-spasmodic phase; Bell, calc-c, Carb-v, CINA, cup, DIO, hep, Kali-c, merc, nux-v, pul, ver-a.
-defervescent phase; Arn, carb-v, dul, hep, PULS.

2)Cough, time, morning; Aco, ALU, am-c, am-m, anac, ang, ant-c, arg, arn, ARS, aur, bar-c, bell, bor, bov, bry, calad, calc-c, canth, carb-a, carb-v, caust, Cham, chel, CHIN, cina, coc-c, cup, dig, dro, elap, eup-p, euphor, Euphr, fer, graph, hep, Iod, Ip, KALI-BI, kali-c, kali-n, kre, lach, led, LYC, mag-c, man, Mgs, merc, mos, mur-ac, nat-c, Nat-m, nit-ac, nux-m, NUX-V, par, Phos, pho-ac, pso, PULS, rho, rhus-t, sars, scil, sele, seng, sep, sil, spi, stan, staph, stram, Sulph, sul-ac, thuj, ver-a.

3) Evening; Aco, ag-c, alum, amb, am-c, am-m, anac, arn, ARS, bar-c, bell, bov, BRY, CALC-C, CAPS, Carb-a, Carb-v, caus, cham, chin, cina, cocl, colo, con, DRO (euphr), fer, grap, HEP, ign, iod, Ip, kali-c, Kreos, lach, lau, led, lyc, mag-c, mag-m, mur-ac, mar, MERC, mez, mos, mur-ac, nat-c, Nat-m, NIT-AC, NUX-V, par, Petr, Phos, pho-ac, pso, PUL, ran-b, rhe, rho, RHUS-T, rut, sang, scil, seng, SEP, sil, spo, Stan, staph, stic, stro, sul, sul-ac, ver-a, verb, zinc.

4) Cough, Excited or Agg by yawning; Arn, asag, cina, mu-ac, nux-v, staph. (none of them higher than a 4!)
----cough ends in; anac, cep. (both 4's as well)

Under "Sleep, CONCOMITANTS":
Yawning; Anac, Ant-t, arn, bro, cham, ign, kre, lyc, nat-m, nuc-v, op, phos, puls, rhus-t, zinc.

In looking under the Sleep Section I only found:

Sleep, yawning, cough; ant-t (ranked only 4)

5) I do not find "Eyes, lachrymation, cough with"! I looked under eyes and found:

-Eyes, lachrymation (big rubric - too
general!).
and,

Eyes-Canthi, Aggravation, cough, before; cina (ranked only a 4).
and,

Eyes-Canthi, Aggravation, coughing; Aco, arn, bell, cap, carb-v, cham, graph, kali-c, nat-m, nux-v, pho, spo.

but in both these two above, NOTHING is in direct relation to 'lachyrmation' it is simply to do with agg in general.

In looking under Eyes, Lachrymation - there is nothing referring to agg by cough! So, I've listed what I could find .

6)I don't find "Stomach, retching, cough with" - but here is what I find in this repertory:

Retching cough; Amb, anaz, ant-t, carb-v, coc-c, dro, der, hep, ip, kali-c, lob, meph, nat-m, nux-v, petr, scil, seng, sep, sil, sul.

and,

Cough, Concomitants -

Retching; Ant-t, bap, bell, bro, CARB-V, Chin, Cup, DRO, HEP, ip, kali-bi, kali-c, KRE, loc, lyc, mag-p, merc, mez, nat-m, NUX-V, Puls, scil, sep, stan, SUL.

So, the latter rubric relates as a concomitant symptom to the cough while the former rubric which is describing the cough itself as retching. I'm not sure if you meant he has a retching cough - or is retching WITH the cough. So I've put both in .

There is also the concomitant of:
Cough, Vomiting; Acon, anac, ANT-T, BRY, calc-c, CARB-A, chin, croc-c, dig, DRO, Fer, Hep, Ip, kali-c, kre, Lach, mez, nat-m, nit-ac, NUX-V, Phos-ac, PULS, RHUS-T, Saba, Sep, sil, SUL, ver-a.
-bitter; zinc
-ingesta; Anac, Ant-t, BRY, dig, Dro, fer, IP, NUX-V, Pho-ac, puls, rhus-t, stan.

7) I don't find "Throat, oesophagus, gurgling, cough after" in this repertory - but here is what I found:

Under "COUGH":
Gurgling, followed by; cina (ranked only 4).

At first, I thought this rubric meant a cough followed by gurgling. Maybe I got that backwards !! So easy to get turned around.

The last thing I wanted to add - since Number 1 & 2 seemed such big rubrics - is this:

Under "COUGH, Excited or Aggravated by":

[b]Day and Night, without expectoration; Aco, bell, bro, kre, lau, mos, stra, verb. All are ranked 4 - but you indicated earlier this was the pattern - is that still the case? Anyhow, they closely match the one I listed before - that was found under "Cough, Paroxysms..." - see previous post above .

I'm just wondering what his thirst, appetite and those sorts of things are like currently. Is nothing out of the ordinary since this began?

I hope the Cina does well for him - but if not - please consider the rubrics you select, carefully - and make sure they really do describe his current state/phase that would be characteristic. (I agree that gurgling sound is weird though one should get too caught up on one symptom. Even so - it could be that that sx is the one that cinched it for you..I'm just learning!)

Again, I'm off now to find the other info about the second stage-prescribing from the Whooping Cough book. I'll post shortly.
Sincerely,
Lisa

[ 04 October 2001: Message edited by: LisaAnnan ]

__________________
"The significance of a fact is measured by the capacity of the observer."
Carroll Dunham

Hi Karin,

III. The Picture of the Disease -
An elaborate picture of Hooping(sic) Cough, completely finished even to the finest shadings will hardly be expected in a work like the present. such a picture would be superfluous, fo the reason that every one who may resort to these pages of counsel, will already have learned to recognise this cough, which occures, alas, onlt too frequently; or if, by good fortune, he has not yet had hte opportunitly of learning to know it, he can easily do so, through the symptoms, which are herein present in great abundance and in a form which admits of easy reference. On the other hand, a complete description would require an expansion of work which would be out of place.......to lose in comprehensibility and facility for reference. Our purpose, then, will be sufficiently attained by a detail of the following principal features of the affection.

The true peculiarity of Hooping cough, and which distinguishes it most definitely from all other varieties of cough, consists in the following, viz.:
The cough appears in paroxysms, which last a longer or shorter time, are distinct from each other and independent, and are repeated, more or less frequently, by day as well as at night.

During these paroxysms of cough, the indiviudual coughs follow each other more or less quickly in a spasmodic manner and cease, only to admit of long and deep inspirations which are labouriously effected and are accompanied by various but, generally, peculiar tones whereupon the cough is resumed in a similar manner until the paroxysm there follows a longer or shorter pause, during which, especially in the beginning of the disease, the patient recovers himself and a period of relative health ensures which endues until the next paroxysm.

Only when the malady has already lasted weeks and months does a higher degree of ill-health ensue, in consequence of the repeated parosysms; the patients then, no longer enjoy the benefit of recovering their vigour during the pauses between paroxysms of cough; the entire organism is sympathetically affected; the patients keeps growing sicker, weaker and more wretched, and either he passes away during a paroxysm or selse the seed of one of the various, but for the most part, malignant diseases is deposited which often fatally undermine health and life.

It is cutomary to assume three stages of Hooping Cough, which nevertheless, are seldom very distinctly marked, but generally pass gradually into one another and are seldom, if ever, sharply defined.

The FIRST (emphasis mine) stage, which is called the catarrhal stage, resembles, altogether, an ordinary catarrh, and gives no special indications of the threatening danger, which is generally to be suspected only from the prevailing epidemic character of disease at the time.

The SECOND (emph mine) stage begins with the commencement of the spasmodic symptoms, which begin to accompany the paroxysms of cough, and which then increase from day to day, in an ever-advancing ratio until the above dscribed condition is fully developed.

The THIRD (emph mine) stage, so called, is the period in which if the patient live to reach it, the paroxyxms decrease in duration and violence and the health gradually returns; or else the disease undergoes a transition into a chronic malady which then gradually comes to bear some other name.

The duration of the proper Hooping Cough disease, when left to itself, is various and may be from two months to a half year. But there are also cases which last still longer and in these, as a general rule, the sequelae are extremely deplorable. Allopathy has seldom succeeded in abridging this duration.

**Skipping some long sections about statistics, and other things...

into Section VI.
.......
How entirely different are the prognosis and terminations of Hooping Cough, when the patients are so fortunate as to fall under the care of a skillfull and experienced Homeopathician!

Fatal cases are hardly to be reckoned among the possible terminations. There must be a rare concurrence of the most unfavourable conditions, as well in the constitution of the patient as in the external influences to which he is subjected when the disease terminates fatally. But, in such cases, death is not to be ascribed to the Hooping Cough alone, to which only a greater or less share f this unfavourable termination, rare as it is, can be attributed; and death would probably, in such a case, have been the result, in like manner, of any serious disease whatever its nature might be.

From the sequelae too, so frequent and so lamentable, little is to be dreaded under the homeopathic treatment. For, on the one hand, the power and enrgy of the disease are broken in a few days; and, on the other, the chronic miasm which is being aroused by it (call it scrofula, psora, or what we may) and in which the roots of these sequelae generally resy, may be speedily and surely removed by remedies which Homeopathy, likewise, has in her possession.

In all cases, however, without exception, a great and incontestable advantage of Homeopathy is found in the fact that it very considerably abridges the duration of the disease and, to speak with the utmost moderation, equieres for a complete cure, not so many weeks, as Allopathy requires months.
.........

Please read what I typed before on the School's Forum - HOMEOPATHIC TREATMENT (VIII)
but just a recap of what is important:
From "1. The choice of the remedy".......

In accordance with these requirements, we have endeavoured so to arrange the first part of this work that under the name of each of the remedies which follow in alphabetical order, should be comprsied the following items:

FIRST: a brief but accurate diagnosis of the cough.
a. General character of cough
b. exciting cause of cough
c. expectoration - manner of it raising and to its character.

SECOND
a. period of the day
b circumstances that are especially observed to exist as conditions which exercise a greater or less influence upon the provocation and agg of the paroxysms of coughing - and which often very materially contribute to give the cough an individual character.

THIRDthe third heading called concomitants, comprises a selection of concomitant sx, some of which occur simultaneously with the cough, while others are observed as something abnormal or morbid, affecting the patient at other times.

These taken collectively, serve, by exclusion of other remedies which either do not present these symptoms or present them but incompletely, to assure the choice of the most appropriate remedy for the case in hand. (emphasis mine)

.....For here are found the majority of the sx, which taken collectively, belong to, and constitute the characteristic, and which furnish the means of coming to a definite conclusion. If, for example, lachrymation, epitaxis, or vomiting in general, does not serve to give an available indication, yet these symptoms maybe of the greatest use, when the rarer perculiarities which are recorded in connection with them are found to correspond in the case of certain individuals, and when, at the same time, no clearly contradictory indications are found in other symptoms.

The more accurately all these sx, which are easily found under the various rubrics, are reflected by the case under treatment, the more assured may be feel of the propriety of the choice of the remedy we have made, and the more confidently may we expect a happy result.

In general, however, the tyro of Homeopathy cannot too earnestly take to heart the caution to avoid the great error of regarding a large nuerical quantity of sx that are general in their character and that do not individualise the case, as a sufficient guide in the choice of the remedy. The keen perception and appreciation of those sx which, at the same time, correspond to the nature of the disease, and aslo designate that remedy which is exclusively, or at least, most decidedly indicated - this alone betokens the master-mind. For it is easier-very much easier- to select the right emedy after a picture of the disease, complete in every respect and full meeting all requirements, has bee drawn up, than oneself to obtain the materials for such a picture and to constuct it.

The second part of the homeopathic treatment, viz.:
2. Administration of the remedy might be treated with still greater brevity, but we fear to give offense to some amond the younger Homeopathicians if we pronounce for the higher and highest potencies and for the smallest doses, with more decision and confidence in this disease than in many others, without giving our reasons for so doing. Like so much which the honest and experienced found of the Homeopathic School left as a precious legacy to posterity of fruits of his careful observation, the warning seems to have been forgotten to which he called the attention of his followers in a note to the preface of Drosera.

**It goes on to warn about not repeating Dros too quickly (not immediately after 1st dose) as it not only stump the case but cause problems).

Then it goes on to say (coincidentally about CINA!):

He uses altogether similar language with reference to another remedy which likewise stands in the front rank in the treatment of Hooping Cough, viz, Cina, and gives the assurance that "the thirtieth potency manifest, most completely, the curative power of the drug."

It goes on to say:......

we surely need not hesitate frankly to declare that the very smallest doses, viz, two globules, moistened with the two hundredth potency of the properly selected remedy, and dissolved in a few spoonfuls of pure cold water and directed to be suitably succussed before each dose - a spoonful of this to be taken morning and evening - has always fully answered our expectations; and that we have never had occasion to descend to lower dilutions and more massive doses. It need scarely be said that this remedy must not be interferred with in its action by any other drug and tehrefore the well-known homeopathic diet, the sole object of which is to accomplish this end, must be observed.

END.

Some of this was typed into our School's Forum - but I thought it important to recap anyway .

Hope this helps out. Let us know how he is getting on - and give him a wee hug from me ,
Lisa

[ 04 October 2001: Message edited by: LisaAnnan ]

__________________
"The significance of a fact is measured by the capacity of the observer."
Carroll Dunham