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bwv11 · #30 (**permalink**) 13th July 2003, 03:45 AM

Quote: I don't otherwise know of any way to prove the existence of higher-dimensional or non-physical particles.

But I refer to your post July 10, 8:43pm: you refer to the 15-20 etheric or non-physical particles posited by materialistic science to patch gaps in their theory, explaining phenomena that at this point in time cannot be otherwise explained. The immaterial substances you cite included tachyons, dark matter, vacuum energy, subquantic medium, neutrino flux, neutrino sea…. This is what I referred to when saying you yourself had implied that immaterial ‘particles’ or whatever could be inferred by their effects on the physical plane. Then you state, “It starts to get really nauseating to hear them yak-yak about such things but miss the basic conclusion of multiple planes of existence forced by acceptance of non-physical particles.” My point was that there is apparent interaction here, and that just because at the present date we don’t have the knowledge, data, intelligence, or basic physical capability to directly observe or measure these things, the fact that they fit in as part of an explanatory scheme, clarifying at least hypothetically the functioning of “matter” in the material universe, then I would propose that even ‘immaterial’ substances be considered part of the ‘material’ universe. Regardless whether we conceive of alternative universes, different dimensions, different planes, or what-have-you, whatever turns out to be ultimately the ‘reality’ of our rather large habitat, material particles and immaterial substances are all a part of the complex reality. Even ‘soul,’ I suppose, would have to be included as a residual effect of material existence…though I’ll spare you and myself further speculation on that subject, at least for the moment.

So-o-o-o-o-o-o, if they’re all interacting as part of the total, balanced, unitary universe, whether they are material or immaterial is … pardon the pun, immaterial. Even the immaterial particles act according to laws, for if they didn’t then their hypothesized presence would not resolve any of the holes in the materialistic view of things that had been developed to the time they were hypothesized. Am I losing everybody here?

In other words, when I myself think about the ‘material universe,’ I think about the whole ball of wax, I tend to be skeptical about different dimensions and time travel and such, but see no reason to restrict the inventory of admissible particles to objects the size of bowling balls, molecules, or atoms.

In short, just because there are immaterial substances, how does that prove that there is a ‘spiritual’ dimension or ‘multiple planes of existence?’